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A Misdiagnosis From Dr. Doom
Wells Fargo a zombie? Based on what?

Thomas Brown  ( about me )
Posted 02/24/2009
bankstocks.com
tbrown@bankstocks.com

On Friday here, I argued that the current implosion of financial stocks is the equivalent of the tech stock bubble of 1999-2000, only upside down and backwards. Then, valuations were extreme and irrational on the upside. Now, they’re extreme and irrational on the downside. Then, like now, there was a lot of talk about the start of a “new era.” And, then (as now) strange new metrics emerged that were used to justify the extreme prices of the time. I happen to believe, for instance, that investors’ new obsession with the tangible common equity ratio—a measure that no one, most notably regulators, has ever shown the slightest interest in before—isn’t so different from tech stock bulls’ devotion to things like “eyeballs per share” back in the day.

Both eras had their own sets of cheerleaders, too—people who went from being nobodies to Omniscient Global Oracles almost overnight. In 1999, whenever Henry Blodget, say, or Jack Grubman or Mary Meeker made a pronouncement, the world stopped what it was doing to sit up and listen. But in the end, of course, the oracles stayed bullish too long, and descended back into obscurity almost as fast as they’d emerged from it. 

And now? In the midst of the current crackup, one name seems to be at the top of everyone’s list of gloom-and doom cheerleaders: Dr. Nouriel Roubini of NYU business school. He predicted the current crisis as early as anyone, and got it right both in severity and expected knock-on effects. His subsequent calls have proved prescient, as well. I don’t know of anyone who deserves more credit for forecasting the whole bloody mess the world’s in.

I mention this because I read the interview Roubini gave to the Wall Street Journal this past weekend. I’m starting to suspect that, just as Blodget and Grubman ended up staying bullish just as things began to turn down, Roubini will overdo things on the downside even once the financial system begins to heal itself.  

In particular, it’s a stretch for Roubini, and a dangerous one, to extrapolate his macro economic forecast for the financial system as a whole, and apply it equally to the individual institutions that operate in that system. That, unfortunately, is what Roubini does with respect to his comments about Wells Fargo this weekend. He tells the Journal:

Wells Fargo took over Wachovia. It doesn’t work! You can’t take two zombie banks, put them together, and make one strong bank. It’s like having two drunks trying to keep each other standing. 

Hold on a minute, doc. Wells Fargo a “zombie bank”? What data are you looking at to arrive at that conclusion? On the available evidence, none.

There’s simply no factual basis for what Roubini has to say. Wells hasn’t had the credit problems or exposure to bad assets that have plagued so many of its competitors. It was profitable every quarter last year, and is expected to be profitable in the first quarter of 2009. Its capital ratios are extremely strong.  

(As far as that goes, don’t try to argue that Wells’s acquisition of Wachovia has somehow, like a malevolent potion, magically transformed the company into a zombie. When it did the deal, Wells identified $60 billion of Wachovia’s assets as impaired--and wrote them down by 40%. Under the new marks, even Wachovia isn’t much of a zombie anymore.) 

And Wells isn't apt to run into new problems going forward. Over the next two years, we estimate the company will generate $65 billion in pre-tax, pre-provision earnings which will be more than sufficient to cover the $32 billion of charge offs we expect it to incur.  In all, Roubini’s “zombie” bank should make over $20 billion in the next two years!

Roubini’s been emphatically right for the last few years—a lot more right on the macro picture, certainly, than I have been. But he runs the risk now, I believe, of Jack-Grubmanizing himself. When I read Roubini’s comments about Wells Fargo this weekend, it was hard to shake the feeling that he’s gotten into the habit of starting off with the gloomy conclusion, and filling in the facts to support it later on. Even, by the way, when there are no such facts available.  

Interestingly, Roubini alludes negatively to the psychology that surrounded the tech bubble a decade ago, especially the psychology of the media:

The problem is that in the bubble years everyone becomes a cheerleader, including the media. This is the time when journalists should be asking tough questions. . . . The Masters of the Universe always on the cover, or the front page. . . .In the bubble years, no one asked the hard questions. A good journalist has to be the one who, in good times, challenges the conventional wisdom.           

In bad times, too, I might add. At the moment, however, Nouriel Roubini is the walking, talking incarnation of the conventional wisdom—which is why he’s become ubiquitous on the cable shows, and why the Wall Street Journal devoted 45 column inches to him on Saturday. The media have become Roubini cheerleaders lately, just as they were CEO cheerleaders not so long ago. I, for one, wouldn’t mind if they asked Roubini some of the tough questions he says the media should be asking. They might start, in a small way, by asking him what exactly he sees in Wells Fargo that makes it a zombie.

What do you think? Let me know!

Related:

Are Financial Stock Valuations the Mirror Image of Tech Stocks in ’99?

Memo To Feds: Stop Meddling In Wells Fargo's Spending Plans


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pgfinegan@aol.com Posted On 2/24/2009 9:58:03 AM

As a Well's shareholder via, ugh, Wachovia, I would like to agree with you. But I find it hard not to worry about a bank so heavily committed to the housing market, now in free fall... particularly in California. Reserving and charge offs are works in progress and the concern is that yesterday's forecasts may well fall short of tomorrow's realities.

Bill Bradway Posted On 2/24/2009 11:41:23 AM

Agree with your Wells Fargo analysis - If Roubini doesn't adjust to changing conditions and/or stay away from individual institutions, his "legacy" of being right this time around will be tarnished.

janbil Posted On 2/24/2009 11:48:57 AM

Tom, Having lived and traded during the tech bubble, your analysis is spot on. The more outlandish the prediction, the more media coverage. Same was true in 1999 as it is today. At this point in the cycle there is more "story telling" then there is fact in regards to kicking all banks. People who couldn't read a bank balance sheet are now spelling gloom and doom for all banks. After navigating the past 20 years through all sorts of mine fields, the management of Wells suddenly took stupid pills when they acquired Wachoiva? The only risk I see is the government making a decision based on politics instead of business. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

London Posted On 2/24/2009 12:12:51 PM

Analysts, like most of us, are rarely ambidexterous. Bear stay bearish, bulls bullish. They become gurus when the market moves in their direction and if they make enough eloquent noise. When the market changes, they disappear.

ms Posted On 2/24/2009 12:46:02 PM

Agree.....why should a bank that leads the US in mortgages subtract MSR (mortgage servicing rights or revs) when they have seen a pick up in mortgage refi activity....yes, wells looks questionable on a tangible equity basis if you back out MSR...but invesotrs shouldn't. Also on the 60 Bln of impaired loans from Wachovia, I believe the 40% marks were conservative....JPM and WFC are the survivors and the first 100% move in these names will be quick but I see another 300% upside by the end of 2010....financials are finally stabilizing in my humble opinion..

ernisTbass Posted On 2/24/2009 12:47:41 PM

I wonder what Elaine Garzzarreli thinks?????As I listen to" double shot of my baby's love" hmmm? Has Roubini gotten "too sexy for his shirt" yet????

left_coast Posted On 2/24/2009 1:10:34 PM

"We’ve been saying for awhile now that the cumulative credit losses from the subprime mortgage market won’t be as high as the consensus seems to think. Judging by how the financial stocks have been acting lately, not a single person on the planet believes us. " -- Thomas Brown 07-07-2008

Observer Posted On 2/24/2009 1:21:31 PM

Um, WFC lost money in 4Q. And don't tell me this was due to "conservative" accounting and merger charges. WFC took the opportunity of the WB deal to build its own reserves which were woefully inadequate prior to that. They are good operators. Probably the best of any large bank out there. But their balance sheet has been far from pristene and remains highly levered. So their credit had better hold up.

JimBob Posted On 2/24/2009 1:46:19 PM

Don't forget the prescient Meredith Whitney. The world drools when she comes on t.v. Markets overextend and markets overreact to the downside. That's the way it has always worked so I don't see this correction as any different.

ms - credit analyst Posted On 2/24/2009 2:13:03 PM

Meredith did a great job 9 yrs ago highlighting that JPM had big exposure to Enron and they took a 400mm hit on that bankruptcy but she stayed negative too long....She will not warm up to these names and discount an economic recovery until the stocks have moved quite a bit. Nationalization....if the govt is restricting executive compensation doesn't that sound like a Nationalization already?...I bet if you asked what is Nationalization, you would get 20 different answers but a lot of this seems priced in already.... WB was assuming 12% losses on their option arm portfolio... so when JPM stepped in and acquired WAMU's biz w the govt aid and assumed a 20% loss on their option arm portfolio...Wachovia's CDS blew out the next day and the regulators forced a sale to Citi that weekend...despite the fact that WB's option arm was priced off of COSI so the mortgage holders interest rate woud have been lower in October where WAMU's option arm was priced off Libor which had spiked some 400bp's so those holders had cripling increases in rates when the credit markets froze up post Lehman....quite a difference, correct?.....so those assumptions were actually accurate of 20% losses...but here we are and WFC is assuming 40% losses on Wachovia's assets....that means that 50% of all loans, CRE, RMBS and CMBS goes bust and only 10% are recovered during foreclosure proceedings...I believe 40% losses pre foreclosure may be realisitc but 40% total cumulative losses, no way...Remember that secured or even unsecured bank debt is one of the highest parts of the capital structure and gets paid first.

none Posted On 2/24/2009 2:39:06 PM

I couldn't agree with you more. I have learned to like it when guys Roubini start believing their own press clippings. I bought some WFC at $9.15 the other day. If it will make him feel better WFC could change its ticker to ZMB

Kentley Jones, former SB also. Posted On 2/24/2009 3:38:27 PM

Great comments. Hubris gone wild? (Not being grounded in the "real," it tends to happen to academics more quickly.) In fact, with regard to Wachovia-Citibank attempted merger, the market was saying at the time that the Government was being, to put it kindly, disingenuous. They were using Wachovia's deposit base to prop up Citibank, not the other way around. The market's smell, as it often is, was right as we now know. Buffett will win again in the medium to long run, for he bets on management and the best "in its space." The two best big money center financial institutions are Goldman Sachs (investment banking) and Well Fargo (commercial banking)

Happy212 Posted On 2/24/2009 4:27:35 PM

As a Wachovia securities advisor soon to be called a Wells Fargo Advisor bravo for your comments!The press always tries for negatives even if there is no substance.Thanks for calling him to task.

MarkH Posted On 2/24/2009 5:27:30 PM

I've been wondering for a long time why he thinks banks like WFC and BAC are zombie banks and need to be nationalized.They've taken their marks. He never provides much in the way of specifics. Just fear.

Bryan Posted On 2/24/2009 7:24:27 PM

Well Mr. Brown makes some reasonable points but this essay begs to differ on Mr. Roubini's past calls: http://www.erictyson.com/articles/20081024_1 Roubini is out to lunch on Wells Fargo - it's about the best big bank around.

old guy Posted On 2/24/2009 7:37:06 PM

And, don't forget that the core Wachovia franchise, (absent the overpriced, ill considered, irresponsibly wacky west coast shopping spree), was one of the best managed banks in the business. Its base retail, small business and wealth management operations were at least on a par with Wells. That, of course was a fact not lost on Wells management or the Feds who were desperately trying to use them to prop up all that ails Citi.

everyothercatstaken Posted On 2/25/2009 9:55:26 AM

Precisely, Mr. Brown. You rightly give the Prof. high marks for his macro calls, and take him to serious task as he pontificates on individual banks, a-la the WSJ and Time magazine interviews which were nothing short of non-objective and theatrical. Wells strategy in taking on Wachovia was brilliant and will be recognized as such by 2010. At the same time, it's conservative marks on the Wachovia book were appropriate. Not mentioned in any of the press on Wells is its exceptional history of bringing in wide net interest margins. Its deposit base is large and cheap, and its asset pricing is on the high side vis-a-vis competitiors. NIMs over the years have spelled this out. Also ignored is the avalanch of of deposits which flowed from Indymac and Wamu as their fortunes declined and depositors became nervous. So, more cheap deposits(31% growth in 2008) to fund well priced and underwritten loans. To complete my understanding of Wells I'm reviewing the valuations of Wells MSRs. I've looked at their valuation changes in the past and been satisfied, but in the current environment it's time to take a new look. Disclosure: yes, a WFC stockholder.

everyothercatstaken Posted On 2/25/2009 9:56:04 AM

Precisely, Mr. Brown. You rightly give the Prof. high marks for his macro calls, and take him to serious task as he pontificates on individual banks, a-la the WSJ and Time magazine interviews which were nothing short of non-objective and theatrical. Wells strategy in taking on Wachovia was brilliant and will be recognized as such by 2010. At the same time, it's conservative marks on the Wachovia book were appropriate. Not mentioned in any of the press on Wells is its exceptional history of bringing in wide net interest margins. Its deposit base is large and cheap, and its asset pricing is on the high side vis-a-vis competitiors. NIMs over the years have spelled this out. Also ignored is the avalanch of of deposits which flowed from Indymac and Wamu as their fortunes declined and depositors became nervous. So, more cheap deposits(31% growth in 2008) to fund well priced and underwritten loans. To complete my understanding of Wells I'm reviewing the valuations of Wells MSRs. I've looked at their valuation changes in the past and been satisfied, but in the current environment it's time to take a new look. Disclosure: yes, a WFC stockholder.

LM Capital Posted On 2/25/2009 10:28:49 AM

I am sure you are right to challenge an economist on individual banks, you are indeed one of the experts in that field and he is not. Then again, you have been wrong for a while now and while I believe banks will turn around, maybe it is time to admit the macro bottom down view has been (to say the least) much more accurate than the bottom up fundamental one. As it stands, he remains right and rest of us were wrong.

Rascolnikov Posted On 3/2/2009 1:54:15 PM

It seems to me that anyone who has the nerve to predict that one particular banking institution is going to be immune from the broad based calamity that is impacting financial institutions is being pretty optimistic. This down draft is only beginning and it will accelerate before bottoming out. To suggest that now is the time to jump on a Wells Fago bandwagon is absurd. We ain't seen nothing yet.

AllStreets Posted On 4/11/2009 9:50:05 AM

The focus has been on losses from subprime and option ARMs. What about provisions for write-offs on home equity loans and first liens, even prime? Have those been sufficient or included in the projected write-offs? Weren't both Wells and Wachovia huge players in home equity loans? With medain home values down 30% on average in the 20 metro areas, I don't see how those aren't the really toxic assets. In many areas of CA, NV, AZ, FL, and maybe WA & OR, homeowners owe twice their home values. Borrowers with zero or negative equity must be close to 30% of owners nationally by now, and there's not much prospect for a meaningful bounce in values any time soon given demographics and the radical elimination of qualified borrowers due to the elimination of all low doc loans, subprime of any kind, Alt A and most equity loans over 80% CLTV. Aren't we going to see many millions of homeowners give up hope and walk, as happened in the oil patch in the 1980's. Consumer balance sheets are decimated and I don't see how that doesn't flow into declining profits and bank write-offs eventually. How much of the surge in Well's 1st quarter earnings is temporary due to the surge in mortgage refinances since December, 2008 and continuing for a while until the shrinking pool of remaining prime qualifiers get their 5% refis (including the expected 3-4 million of risky prime refinances at 80-105% LTV, many with no MI coming up with the Affordability Plan). By the way, I too predicted the current mortgage and macroeconomic mess beginning in summer, 2006, based on the prospective issuance of the Interagency Guidelines of Nontraditional Mortgage Products, finally issued September 28, 2006 by the Fed and a comprehensive consortium of bank regulators. It was clear that the Guidance signalled the probable end all subprime, low doc, and asset based mortgage lending, eliminating about 50% of all previously qualified borrowers, and happening at a moment of record high home ownership when
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